JOB: LAMP Artisan

Dan Egli ddavidegli at
Mon Feb 24 02:57:15 MST 2014

On February 21, 2014, Joshua Fenio wrote:

> Sure, but a good workman recognizes a broken tool when he sees one. It's

> inarguable that PHP is a poorly designed language - if you can even argue

> that it's "designed" in the first place.

I have to disagree here. Is PHP perfect? No way. No language. Is it the
language to use in any situation? Again no, and again, neither is any other
language. Does the language "Just Work" when written carefully? Absolutely.
As far as my personal experiences go, it works quite well. Are there
situations where I'd look for a different language? Undoubtedly. But they
would be the exception, not the rule. And then comes the big question: How
easy is it to debug PHP? Very easy. How easy is it to debug some other
languages? Ranging anywhere from very easy to extremely difficult/near

--- Dan

On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 2:28 AM, S. Dale Morrey <sdalemorrey at>wrote:

> I used to be a master PHP programmer.  I had hundreds of projects under my
> belt.
> They were all designed with the very best practices of the day.
> Then one project after another fell due to vulnerabilities.  Sometimes code
> issues, sometimes wierd SQL attacks that had been previously thought to be
> "unpossible".
> Eventually all of these projects were replaced with less vulnerable
> languages such as Python, Java & Node.
> In the intervening years I've learned that PHP is good for a quick
> prototype to generate enough interest to get funding for a real project.
> Sorry but that's the truth as I see it from having spent the last decade
> and a half as a hired gun.
> Now days 20% of my work involves moving companies & people off from PHP and
> onto something more secure, more scalable etc.
> I would argue that a company will get more bang for it's buck by leveraging
> what they already know.  If you have webdevs with strong Javascript
> experience then node is awesome.  If you've got serious engineers with Java
> or C++ then frameworks based on that are good, Python also seems to work
> well for these guys although I've never been able to pick up strong
> proficiency in it.  Perl may still be a good contender if you can grok the
> insane and arcane syntax it's performance will most times be far in excess
> of anything you'll achieve with PHP.  And then of course there's Ruby, but
> I won't get into that.
> In fact the fastest webservice I ever built was built on top of Lua and it
> easily handled 300,000 queries per second in the real world.  This was
> about 5 years ago on a single box with a flat-file DB an SSD drive and a
> crapton of ram.  (crapton is a new unit of measurement, not a new particle)
> Every project is a matter of picking the right tool for the right job.
> Basing everything you do off from a combo of Linux Apache, MySQL and PHP is
> going to give you vulnerabilities you can't even imagine.  And of course
> those vulnerabilities will scale as you try to scale.
> I believe that the combination of MySQL and PHP should be considered
> anathema to good design practice for any company developing a modern
> infrastructure.  If you must go with PHP don't use MySQL as a backend.  If
> you must use MySQL don't use PHP as a front end.
> So I stand by my earlier statement.  I've learned that MySQL/PHP is good
> for a quick prototype to generate enough interest to get funding for a real
> project.  Once you have that funding ,an immediate move to something better
> is in order.
> I do still like the language itself.  It's the implementation that sucks.
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Matthew Frederico <mfrederico at
> >wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Tod Hansmann < at
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Do you have to LOVE PHP?  Can you just have an understanding of its
> > > usefulness as a tool despite the terrible language it is implemented
> as,
> > > thus enjoying building things with it as opposed to enjoying it in and
> of
> > > itself?  =cP
> > >
> > > I know, I'm a bad man.
> > >
> >
> > Dear Tod,
> >
> > Not *loving* php doesn't make you a bad man .. well, not too much :-)
> >
> > Yes - it's not a perfect programming language like node, but compared to
> > GWBasic or Java - (</me ducks>) its shortcomings are outweighed by its
> low
> > footprint, ubiquitous install base and easy to pick up grammaticals.
>  Thus,
> > like the hammer of Thor - In the right hands "the php" can be a powerful
> > force to do good.  Just like every other language with a cult-like fan
> > base.
> >
> > So perhaps you are right - Loving what it does, not necessarily what it
> is.
> >  (Love the sinner, not the sin?)
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > - Matt
> >
> > /*
> > PLUG:, #utah on
> > Unsubscribe:
> > Don't fear the penguin.
> > */
> >
> /*
> PLUG:, #utah on
> Unsubscribe:
> Don't fear the penguin.
> */

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