Jason Klebs jasonk at
Thu Dec 12 11:49:08 MST 2013


Thanks for the explanation.  I think if we're to make good decisions
regarding these ideas and technologies, they have to be well understood

As a cloud evangelist, what is your take on being able to trust 'the
cloud?'  Personally, I don't put much trust in
computers/infrastructure/software that I don't run or can't inspect -
or, more likely, can't be inspected by people I trust.  Of course, there
is a security/usability trade-off here: I don't care so much about
streaming music from the cloud, but I don't want government spys (or
perhaps worse, advertising spys) reading my e-mail - hence I am not
using GMail.  Entire governments are leaving SaaS services and building
their own infrastructure.  "Not hosted in the USA" is now a requested

Personally, I don't see the cloud as the next big thing.  I see it as on
a hype curve.  Right now it's very high on the curve, but the recent
revelations - coupled with the fact that you have to completely trust
your providers - is bringing it slowly down.


On 12/12/2013 11:08 AM, Grant Shipley wrote:
> Let's clear up what cloud actually means then.  There are three types of
> cloud computing:
> IaaS - Infrastructure as a service
> Think Amazon EC2, Google Compute Engine here.  The only thing provided to
> the user is the hardware / vm.  The user is responsible for providing the
> operating system, updating it, apply security errata, installing and
> managing all applications, tuning the OS - databases - application servers
> etc.  It addresses a real concern in the industry by reducing the time to
> market for getting servers quickly.  With IaaS, you can spin up 1000
> machines in a matter of minutes and grow as demand quires it.  The only
> problem, no one knows what their final bill will be every month.
> You have to bring your sys admins, application code, and users along with
> you.
> PaaS - Platform as a service
> The OpenShift, Heroku, CloudFoundry here.  PaaS sits on top of IaaS to
> automate even more of the environment.  Typically the PaaS will manage all
> aspects of the environment for you.  This includes database tuning,
> automatic scaling, application server management, security updates to OS
> and runtimes, etc.  Users of PaaS need to deploy and be responsible for the
> application code that is deployed on the environment to ensure it is
> robust, scalable, and cloud friendly.
> You have to bring your application code and users along with you.
> SaaS - Software as a Service
> Think, facebook, gmail, dropbox here.  Software as a service
> is a WYSIWG environment.  The platform manages everything for you and often
> times you can't customize the application code.  This is the cloud
> technology that has been around the longest and widely adopted.
> You have to bring your users and your data to the table here.
> The adoption rate among these three cloud technologies are as follows:
> SaaS - Huge adoption.  This was a buzz word 8 years ago and we really don't
> hear much about it anymore because its widely accepted and in use by 99% of
> all corporations today.
> IaaS - medium adoption. People still have concerns about moving their
> workloads to a public cloud provider (ec2) but a lot of people are making
> this move.  When I talk about cloud computing to companies, one of the
> first things I hear is -- we can't put our users email address and data in
> a public cloud.  Our data is so important we need a 5 million dollar oracle
> RAC server behind 15 firewalls. I think ask them what they use for sales
> automation tools.  They proudly respond with  Face -> Palm.
>  People don't realize that they are storing much more than users data in
> the public cloud today.  With they are storing all of their
> financials and forecasts.  Having access to someone environment is
> more damning that having access to their internal oracle db.
> PaaS - low adoption.  This is the new kid on the block.  I fully expect
> this to be mainstream and every developer will be using a PaaS in 3-5 years
> as they see the benefits for development.  The tidal wave is coming.  It's
> best for us developers to go ahead and get familiar with it because it is
> coming!
> Now, just to be clear.  You will hear a lot of other crap about cloud
> computing.  IMO ignore it.  People and companies will tout things such as
> mBaaS (Mobile backend as a service) MWaaS (Middle Ware as a Service) etc.
>  All of these new buzz word terms can be recognized in one of three main
> categories (IaaS, PaaS, SaaS).  I don't know why people are clinging to and
> making up new as a services acronyms.  It just further confuses everyone
> knew to cloud computing and is hindering the adoption of this fantastic
> technology.
> --
> gs
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Jason Klebs <jasonk at> wrote:
>> In my opinion, 'the cloud' is a buzz-word, and regarding it, people act
>> accordingly.  Buzz-words are meant to diminish understanding of
>> something, not enhance it.  Therefore, a lot of places don't weigh the
>> benefits and drawbacks of what is essentially a move to another hosting
>> provider.
>> While we're opening up cans of worms...
>> I have assumed (even pre-Snowden) that every EC2 instance comes with
>> root access for the NSA built-in.  Thoughts on this?
>> -Jason
>> On 12/12/2013 10:21 AM, Jonathan Duncan wrote:
>>> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:03 AM, S. Dale Morrey <sdalemorrey at
>>> wrote:
>>>> For the most part, you can't just migrate existing systems to "the
>>>> cloud(tm)".  You really do need to think of it as a re-implementation
>> task
>>>> and expect your costs to follow accordingly.
>>>> Agreed. The Cloud is just another tool. Like any tool, if used properly
>>> can be helpful, if used improperly can be deadly. The company I am
>>> currently with is in the process of migrating all services to the cloud.
>>> This includes an entire rewrite of the code base and entirely new system
>>> architecture. It is a mistake to think of the Cloud in the same way as
>> one
>>> would think of traditional physical servers. For me, learning to use the
>>> Cloud effectively has required me to adopt a new paradigm.
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