[way OT] - Net Neutrality Is Marxist?

Tod Hansmann tod at todandlorna.com
Wed Apr 14 22:51:29 MDT 2010

I think I'm with Alpheus on the definition of a liar (especially in 
regards to parroting reports about regulations).  I'm also with the 
others in saying he needs to get away from juno.com and into the new 
millenia, or at least the 90's, where juno.com was still scary.

-Tod Hansmann

On 4/14/2010 7:09 PM, alpheus.madsen at juno.com wrote:
> From: Stuart Jansen<sjansen at buscaluz.org>
>>>>> Thus, Michael may be Canadian, but Canada isn't as friendly
>>>>> to private health insurance as he makes it out to be, either!
>>>> But you lied when you said private health insurance was illegal.
>>>> Plain and simple.
>>> He may have erred, but that does not mean he lied. To lie
>>> includes an element of intent to deceive, a serious charge.
>> I stand by my original statement. Alpheus was parroting lies.
>> That makes him a liar.
> First of all, I was parroting a news report that I had read weeks earlier--that does not make me a liar, because I firmly believed what I parroted.  All of us learn facts, and all of us learn what we *think* are facts, and there are plenty of both that it is impossible to hunt down and make sure every single fact we encounter is true.  If we trust in some source, and repeat it, that does not make us liars.  In a court, it would be hearsay, but I have a funny feeling that these threads don't follow the rules of the court in submitting evidence.
> When I searched to back up my claim, though, I discovered something:  measured by Canadian providences, I was 60% right, and for the remainder of providences, there is enough regulation to make it so that it's practically illegal.
>> There may be a difference between creating a lie and repeating
>> it, but I'm not sure it matters much. Some might argue for a
>> softer, more politically correct term, but I prefer to aim for
>> clarity.
>> There's plenty of precedent for considering someone a liar even
>> if they don't know they're mistaken. ("You made a liar out of
>> me, boy!")
> There is also plenty of precedent for pointing out that someone is mistaken when they are, and not call them a liar.  To the extent that I'm *still* defending my position, I may *still* be mistaken, but I'm not a liar on this issue.
>> Alpheus should not be asking himself, "am I a liar?" Clearly he
>> is. Instead, the question is "Why did I prefer to listen to and
>> repeat the lie?"
>> We're all liars and hypocrites at different times. The question
>> is, are we also strong enough to acknowledge reality, or will we
>> continue to use emotional filters to ignore truths we're don't
>> want to hear. Political correctness will not help us arrive at
>> truth.
> We will always use emotional filters to ignore truths we don't want to hear, for two reasons: because often hold strongly to our beliefs, and because so many "truths" have not been absolutely decided--indeed, the studies that attempt to shed light on the issues may be deeply flawed.  That doesn't mean we give up on emotions and studies! because these are the things that make debate so interesting.
> Now that I think about it, the study I discovered was conducted for the purpose of addressing the "Is Private Health Care in Canada Illegal?"  So apparently when the claim was first made, it needed verification...and it was discovered that the claim was partly true.
> Of course, things could easily change overnight, especially with regards to regulations! which makes stating facts even more difficult, because they could change without notice to those "parroting" them.  (In which case, they would be mistaken, and not liars.)
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