OT: HHO (Browns Gas) Conversion For Your Car

Levi Pearson levi at cold.org
Wed Jun 11 18:20:23 MDT 2008

Michael Torrie <torriem at gmail.com> writes:

> It was you that made the blanket statement about turbos, not me.  I used
> diesel engines to prove that your statement about a turbo *always*
> cannot possibly increasing efficiency because it consumes more power
> (which is true) to be false.

Well, it was in the context of a gasoline engine discussion.  I
haven't heard of putting HHO injectors on a diesel.  Sorry for not
being explicit enough for you.

> Of course.  As I said, cruising at 90 MPH uses more fuel than cruising
> at 70 MPH.  That's obvious.  Additionally, you are correct about the
> effect of drag.  But MPG-wise, his car would get better mileage at 90
> than it would at 70.  Hence the efficiency was best at 90 MPH, despite
> the higher fuel consumption rate.  The car was more efficient when
> powering the turbo at 90 MPH than at the lower speeds where the turbo is
> not boosting (and hence not consuming as much energy).
> Now the real test would be to compare the turbo car with the
> naturally-aspirated one.

Given two gasoline-powered cars where the only difference was an
appropriately tuned turbo, and mpg was measured at cruise at the same
speed, I'm pretty sure mileage would be close to identical, for
reasons I discussed at great length.  If you can provide data points
to the contrary, I would be interested to see them and hear the
explanation for the difference.

> The efficiency is being measured simply in MPG, which is the only metric
> that counts when it comes to the efficiency of cars on the highway.
> Alex can pipe in with the specifics.  But it was definitely a gasoline
> engine, on a V-6 I think.  Highly anecdotal, granted.  It's his story,
> so I guess I'll not say anything more on it.

An anecdote isn't very useful without some theory to back it up.
That's how quacks sell stuff.  If you can give a plausible theory as
to why a turbo would increase the cruise efficiency of a gasoline
vehicle, I'd be interested to hear it.

Actually, I can point to an example of a supercharger used to increase
gasoline engine efficiency, but it requires the engine to run on the
Miller Cycle rather than the Otto Cycle.  The gist of it is that a
positive-displacement supercharger is hooked up, and the valve timing
is altered such that the intake valve remains open for a little while
after the piston starts its upward travel, expelling some of the air.
Thus, the same amount of air exists in the cylinder as there would be
in a naturally-aspirated vehicle, but it was compressed more
efficiently.  The intercooler in the system also results in compressed
air with a lower overall temperature, which means ignition timing can
be advanced.  This kind of engine was used in the Mazda Millenia, but
the added cost of the supercharger to the engine made it relatively
unattractive, and fuel was fairly cheap at that point.


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