Bryan Sant bryan.sant at
Tue Feb 13 11:57:26 MST 2007

On 2/13/07, Stuart Jansen <sjansen at> wrote:
> Bryan, do you really think Levi is talking about MS VS and ilk? You've
> obviously not been paying attention. Levi is talking about Smalltalk and
> Lisp.

Levi was talking about old IDEs for smalltalk and lisp.  You show me
the smalltalk or lisp IDE, and I'll show you a joke that doesn't even
compare to a modern Java IDE.  Not even in the same ballpark.

> The problem with Java programmers is that the majority are so short
> sighted. I mean geez, how long did it take to get a simple stupid
> foreach loop added? And then there's the need to use anonymous classes
> to shoe horn first class function in Java. For shame.

Oh, shame, shame!  I mean, how did I ever produce software before the
foreach came about?  Horrors!  I like the new languages features, but
whooptie-do.  Who cares?  My IDE did the work a foreach does before
anyway.  The same is true for anonymous classes.  It's a non-issue.

The Java language is open source and evolving.  Java 7 will have more
features such as closures which will address the anonymous class
stuff, among other things.  That's great, but I'm not biting my nails
waiting for these features.  My productivity won't change much, and
neither will the quality of my software.  I write great software now,
and I'll write great software with the new features later.  Just as I
did before the foreach loop.

> But at least Java doesn't treat me like a complete moron anymore. It's
> just a shame that it took Microsoft trusting us with C# to shake Java
> from its tar pit of complacency.

Where's the shame in that?  I'm glad that Java copied good concepts
from C#.  I hope they copy more from other languages too.


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