Jacob Fugal lukfugl at
Tue Feb 13 11:46:24 MST 2007

On 2/13/07, Bryan Sant <bryan.sant at> wrote:
> On 2/13/07, Levi Pearson <levi at> wrote:
> >  Advanced IDEs these days are only an incremental improvement over IDE
> > technology that existed for years in the advanced Smalltalk and Lisp
> > environments of 15-20 years ago.  Granted, those environments were
> Woooooo.  The IDE features that exist today in Eclipse and IntelliJ
> are far more advanced than the IDE's of yesteryear.  If you're
> thinking, "Hey, I've used Microsoft Visual Studio.  I know what IDE's
> have to offer."  You are dead wrong.  Likewise if you've used Borland
> Turbo C++ or the like.  There is no comparison between prior IDEs and
> the modern Java IDEs.

I'll stay out of the "Java vs. The World" and "IDE: Manna or Necessary
Evil?" arguments, but read again what Levi wrote, Bryan. Levi wasn't
talking about VS or Borland Turbo C++ (the latter I remember using, so
I know where you're coming from with that comparison). Levi referred
to Smalltalk/Lisp/etc. IDEs. I'm not familiar with Lisp IDEs, so I
can't say anything there. Squeak, on the other hand, is quite
something. I have my complaints with it as well, but there is
definitely some truth to Levi's statement that difference between
Squeak and the likes of Eclipse are largely incremental.

Jacob Fugal

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