Stuart Jansen sjansen at
Mon Feb 12 13:53:01 MST 2007

On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 12:23 -0800, Hill, Greg wrote:
> I couldn't agree more.  Every time I look at Java code, I question my
> desire to be a programmer.  Programming should be fun.  Luckily I've
> avoided it thus far in my career and I hope to continue to do so.

IAAJH (I am a Java hater.)

Java is an obnoxious language, but my opinion of it has improved lately.
Here's why I hate Java less:

1) (Because of C#) Java 5 includes several features like annotations,
foreach, autoboxing, varargs, and enums that in the right hands make
Java a much more powerful language.

2) Spend some time with Eclipse and you'll hate Java less. Yes, with
languages like Ruby, IDEs are much less important. My point is, Java is
much less painful with a good IDE.

3) Java is a very rich ecosystem. I avoided using it as long as I could,
but eventually a project crossed my desk that depended on functionality
best available using a 3rd party Java library. Solving interesting
problems makes programming fun, and because of its rich ecosystem, some
problems are best solved using Java tools. (As far as I'm concerned, Web
development is not a strength of Java and never was.)

Java fan boys: don't take heart. Your baby's still ugly as all get out,
and we think you're either (a) tasteless or (b) stupid for defending it
so stridently. Perhaps because you're too (a) afraid or (b) lazy to
learn something else? Frankly, we Java haters are unimpressed by "Dudez,
its th3 popular!" or "D00d3rz, Java programer$ make bank!"

If you want to be more convincing, try arguments like: "Yeah, J2EE was
an _giant_ mistake and PHP is fine for personal homepages, but with Java
I wrote an order processing engine that handles 5,000 tps and it only
took 10,000 lines of XML config files! Can PHP do that? I didn't think

Or "Sure, Haskell is a brilliant language, but who's going to support
the app when I finally go postal on my boss and quit?"

Or "Man, you're right, programming in Ruby makes me happier. But it's so
slooooooooooooooooooooow. We get 500,000 hits per millisecond, our data
center isn't big enough for the hardware Ruby would need."

Stuart Jansen              e-mail/jabber: sjansen at
                           google talk:   stuart.jansen at

"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at 
the results." -- Winston Churchill
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