Cast not your Perl before swine?

Bryan Sant bryan.sant at
Mon Dec 17 10:48:15 MST 2007

On Dec 14, 2007 10:43 PM, Dave Smith <dave at> wrote:
> One word: J2EE.
> The Sun marketing machine has done its job so well that everyone wants a
> ticket on the enterprise choo-choo train. And those jobs, for the

Sun's marketing is horrid.  Java EE is marketed by IBM, Oracle, BEA,
JBoss/Redhat, and Sun.  Of the major players, Sun has the smallest
Java EE market share.  Java EE is fairly well marketed, but we have
IBM, BEA, and JBoss to thank for that -- not Sun.  Sun has been doing
a recent push for OpenJDK, OpenSolaris, Glassfish, and NetBeans 6
that's been refreshingly good, but in the past their marketing has
always sucked.

Your point is valid, but I just wanted to point out that Sun's
marketing isn't a significant reason for current J2EE adoption.

> record, are paying a heck of a lot more than most other programming
> jobs. By my recollection, it's been that way for about 5 years.
> Personally, I'm not a fan of J2EE, but that's another topic.

J2EE was revolutionary when it was released, but its short comings
were quickly identified and avoided.  Most "J2EE" applications really
only employ a small subset of the J2EE feature set.  The Java
Community Process has fixed these short comings, and the latest JEE
(notice that the "2" has been dropped) is pure candy.  Prior to JEE
(aka J2EE 1.5) being released, the gap was filed by OSS projects like
Spring and Hibernate.

So, I think that most Java developers would chime in and agree with
you saying that they weren't fans of J2EE either.

> By the way, my company pays top dollar for programmers to come use their
> skills in whatever-the-heck language they think works best for the job
> (provided it's not  Java, wink).

Why purposely avoid Java?


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