perhaps a little too much honesty (was: RE: Job Posting (.04KReward!) Jr. Linux Admin + Windows Support)

Mister E Mister.Ed at
Sat Sep 9 17:55:15 MDT 2006

Stuart Jansen wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 13:09 -0600, Josh Coates wrote:
>>stuart - this seems awfully inappropriate of you to bring up in a public
>>forum.  but since you have, i feel obligated to set the record straight -
>>we've had two employees that 'left quickly' because they were asked to
>>leave.  however, both of them are good people that i wish well.
> I don't feel that what I said should be taken as offensive. Perhaps I
> should have spelled it out for you more clearly. People we know have
> worked for you. They don't anymore. They haven't said anything bad about
> BDS/Mozy, but their short term with your company does leave the rest of
> us wondering what happened. 
> If you don't want a complete and honest attempt to help you wonder why
> Plug isn't supplying references, don't bring it up on a public
> discussion list.
> Rather than taking offense, If I were you I would have pointed out the
> number of people who love working with you and why.
> Frankly, insinuating that they only reason anyone would leave is that
> they were "asked to" is more rude in my opinion. A simple "their
> interests and our needs didn't intersect well" would have been better.
> I'm pretty sure at least one "chose to leave" rather than being "asked
> to leave".

I'm curious to your personal interest in trying to apply PC cloaking to 
such a statement?  Your statement made it sound like they left because 
the company was crap, but his response gave a more balanced view on it. 
  And I htink he needed to clear it up. I don't know these folks that 
left, nor do I want to know who they were, but all those parties 
involved know what happened and being a third party to the situation, I 
don't think it's your place to tarnish the company nor slant any of us 
to your view in a public forum without atleast letting him reply. Some 
may not have seen it this way, but I thought your statements were not 
needed as initial evidence of your view point and sent ya skating out on 
thin ice.

//general statement
I believe the market has changed substantially in the last couple of 
years locally.  But posting a job is a resource that one can use to help 
their  friends if one applies.  Many on this list are content.  Someone 
else already commented on that fact and I've found that to be true 
myself.  But remember, the tide can shift and then if one has spurned 
the employers in the community, it makes sense that they might remember 
the rebuff when that tide that raised all the boats returns back to the 
sea from which it came. (for short: don't burn bridges).  We all are 
inter-connected and help our local tech community grow and so playing 
favorites and/or allowing only club "I only talk to people I know" rule 
the day, will only set us all back as new tech and blood flows into the 
area. I hated this place for over 25 years until this last year when I 
realized that it was going to be up to me what I was going to make of 
it; for myself and hopefully help others as well.  So, I, for one, am 
looking for ways to improve the local tech setting in my own little tiny 
way ... but it sorta bytes to see folks playing the "club only" cards 
here and seems counter-productive to me.

>>>When you first arrived in the area, you earned a lot 
>>>of respect and good will. Since then, I think you've lost 
>>>some of it. I have no idea what you can do about this.
>>thank you for your concern about my personal reputation, but i'm not sure
>>where you come off making these sorts of assessments, and again, i don't why
>>you think it's okay to post things like this in response to a job posting.
> Because you have tried to make yourself part of the community instead of
> being another nameless, faceless employer. Again, if you don't want to
> discuss it, don't bring it up. Instead of taking offense, you could have
> taken it as a sign of respect that I was willing to be honest and open.
> I appreciate what you've tried to do for the Utah tech community. I want
> BDS/Mozy to succeed. However, if you want to feel like you're being
> pushed out of the community, be my guest.

okay, I now have a question... I recently moved back to the area; is 
this forum "by invite only" or if we try to become part of the community 
is it then a dirty deed because we might also offer employment?

Mister Ed

PS - Stuart... I've sat across from you at a few PLUG meetings and 
watched you carefully. As a result, I repect you and can tell what type 
of feller you really are (decent and upstanding), so I don't have even 
one negative motive to condemn your statements, but these statements 
make me think that newer folks such as myself are now not welcome for 
one reason or another, especially if we offer employment opportunities.

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