OT - Re: GPL Java

Hans Fugal hans at fugal.net
Sat Nov 11 10:49:25 MST 2006

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 at 08:16 -0800, Ross Werner wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:29:36 -0800, Levi Pearson <levi at cold.org> wrote:
> >On Nov 9, 2006, at 9:03 PM, Ross Werner wrote:
> >>I see it as being the difference between object-oriented programming  
> >>and procedural program. If you're in a procedural world, you're going  
> >>to be dominated by verbs. If you're in an object-oriented world, you're  
> >>going to be dominated by nouns.
> >
> >This is not necessarily the case. ...
> >Kay has since said that he began to regret the name 'object oriented'  
> >almost immediately, because he believes the focus should be more on the  
> >messages than the objects themselves.  This philosophy can be seen in  
> >Smalltalk and its successors such as Ruby, which are far more concerned  
> >with behavior than name.
> I'm still not convinced. I'd love to see some production Smalltalk or Ruby  
> code that is object-oriented that is less noun-oriented than its Java  
> counterpart would be. The examples in the article are, of course,  
> exaggerations, and neither production Java or Smalltalk or Ruby code would  
> really look like that. But they would definitely be more "noun-oriented"  
> than equivalent procedural code.

Then go look for some. I'm not convinced you care enough about your POV
for us to care that you're not convinced. You obviously don't *get*
smalltalk or ruby. For one thing, you can write "procedural code" in ruby
and write like you're in C or perl. It's ugly and not the ruby way, but
it shoots a hole in your argument, except insofar as you concede that in
the ways that ruby production code is not like procedural code it is
because it is better than procedural code.

And like Levi pointed out, Ruby and Smalltalk are fundamentally all
about the messages between objects, not the objects themselves.

Hans Fugal ; http://hans.fugal.net
There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the 
right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
    -- Johann Sebastian Bach
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