Java and Mono (was Re: Managing multiple computers at home)

Michael L Torrie torriem at
Mon Mar 27 14:33:47 MST 2006

On Mon, 2006-03-27 at 14:12 -0700, Bryan Sant wrote:
> Take a look a mustang's current rendering of GTK:

Looks great.  Still some issue in the screenshots with the fonts, but
certainly a lot closer.  With this kind of UI integration Java is
finally becoming a first-class citizen.  There will always be the small
issue of HIG, though.  Gnome applications generally do not use frames
(rectangular boxes with a title) anymore, although apps on Windows do.
But that's a developer issue.  I welcome more cool java and C# apps.

> I'm a developer for SwingWT.  It is great.  But the project seems to
> have cooled down.  Fewer people are interested because Swing is
> getting to be so fast, many are asking "What's the point of having SWT
> back the GUI when Swing is just as fast and there are no compatibility
> problems?"

For this particular project I'm in complete agreement.  If swing can
look and act great then I don't think there's any need at all for

> When you say "he meant to say" you're referring to Evans Data Corp
> right?  This isn't some bloggers opinion.  This is the output of a
> research study.  I don't know if Win32 was excluded from the study. 
> However, I really doubt that much of any *new* development is done in
> Win32/MFC.  Even in MFC's hay day, there was more GUI apps built with
> Visual Baisc than MFC.  Now all those old VB developers are using .NET
> and WinForms.  And those guys are getting beat by Swing.

Looking around I just don't see a lot of commercial apps being shipped
in Java or .NET (VB.NET or C#).  I didn't read anything in any of the
articles referenced that backed up this claim.  So far as I know, MS
Office, Photoshop, Acrobat, Flash, etc are all C++.  I know of no major
commercial package (major defined as widely available and widely used by
consumers, not niche products) that is using WinForms or Java (except
for VS 2005 which apparently is sucking pretty bad).

> Supply and demand.  The demand is high.  It doesn't really matter what
> BYU "feels".  The reality is that IT people demand a certain price
> because they themselves are in demand.  If what you're saying is that
> you think that local IT folks are going to be in less demand soon, I
> disagree.

Demand is high right now.  The impression I'm getting from the industry
(just an impression mind you) is that despite the demand, more and more
businesses are finding the high cost unacceptable and are finding ways
to have their cake and eat it too.  Or in some cases businesses are
finding the cost/benefit ratio of IT isn't as much in their favor as
they thought.


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