OT: Php or perl? JAVA BASHING!
ross at indessed.com
Sat Mar 18 14:39:30 MST 2006
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:23:32 -0800, Stuart Jansen <sjansen at buscaluz.org>
> Finally, I'm glad you brought up Python. Certain things about Python rub
> me the wrong way, but at least it's an example of what Java should have
> been. Python code is just as easy (easier!) to maintain than Java. The
> Python community cares about good design, just like the Java community.
In my opinion, there are two major facets of any programming language:
1) The syntax and features of the language itself, e.g. procedural vs.
functional, typing strategies, etc.
2) The libraries and third-party features that surround the language
I place "community" in with #2, because really, the only reason you should
care about what other people are doing with a language (whether they "care
about good design" and so forth) is how it reflects on #2.
> Python is a language that mediocre programmers can use without doing too
> much damage. But Python manages to do it without strapping developers
> into a straight jacket or brainwashing them into think XML is a hammer
> and everything is a nail. The Python community understand the value of
> simple solutions.
These seem to be arguments that fall squarely into the #2 facet. I mean,
there's nothing inherent about the Java language that makes XML a
highly-desirable tool. Python has XML parsers too.
Anyway, where I'm going with this is:
a) I see #1 as being a matter of taste. Some people like the taste of
certain types and certain syntax more than others.
b) If the #1 features of the language match your personal tastes, but #2
is full of idiots (PHP) or over-used XML (Java), it seems to me that there
may be some good opportunities for change. I think PHP is changing in the
right direction, although there's so much baggage there that it may not be
worth it. Java, on the other hand, I think has some great potential for
change, and I think Java 5 is a great example of some of that change. For
example, annotations are getting rid of a lot of the XML baggage that has
been around for a long time.
Here's a great example of how Java is being pushed by languages such as
Python and Ruby into a more flexible world, keeping both the emphasis on
design and the basic Java syntax and features (#1), while changing a lot
of the negative parts of #2.
More information about the PLUG