Publishing flamebait [Fwd: Pragmatic Bookshelf releases "FromJava To Ruby"]

Jacob Fugal lukfugl at
Wed Jun 28 15:23:29 MDT 2006

On 6/28/06, Grant Shipley <gshipley at> wrote:
> On 6/28/06, Gregory Hill <Gregory_Hill at> wrote:
> > For web development, I'd rather be able to log in to the
> > server on a shell, code a fix, and be done in less time than loading up
> > Eclipse, when such a scenario is needed.
> I just tried this.
> 1) Load eclipse with numerous plugins (UML editing, WTP, AOP Builder,
> Maven plugins, SVN plugin, KonsoleStart plugin, Profile plugin)
> 2) open a jsp file (cntrl-shift-r some.jsp)
> 3) make a quick <h1>hello<h1>
> 4) click save
> 24.31 seconds
> 1) ssh username at host
> 2) cd /usr/local/dev/tomcat-www/node1/webapps/wapps/myapp/WEB-INF/jsp
> 3) vi some.jsp
> 4) make a quick <h1>hello<h1>
> 5) :wq
> 30.93 seconds
> I called your bluff.

You forgot getting and putting the remote file in your Eclipse
version. You also forgot that I'd likely have a symlink to
/usr/local/dev/tomcat-www/node1/webapps/wapps/myapp/ as myapp in my
home directory, so I don't need to spend 5-10 seconds typing that
whole path out. So now the favor is to the console, but still only a
few seconds.

But what if I need to make a urgent fix from my SSH enabled phone/PDA?
What if I'm at home instead of work and don't have Eclispe installed,
or at least not all the plugins I need? I'm not saying that command
line editors are always quantitatively better than IDEs, nor that Java
is necessarily a pain to work with in a command line editor. But the
fact that a language should be accessible within a command line editor
is not something to be brushed off with a quip.

> Eclipse will be even faster as the fix because more complex and you
> need typing long function/method names (Autocompletion etc etc etc).

To the command line editor side: tab-completion in both vim and emacs,
ctag style jumping between files, the whole array of command line
tools (grep, find, etc.) to locate files that need changing, and so

Tools are tools. If I'm more proficient in Eclipse, I'll probably be
faster in Eclipse. If I'm more proficient in vim/emacs, I'll probably
be faster in vim/emacs. And if I'm proficient in both, I'll use
whichever the situation warrants.

Greg's point is that *if* a language is not amenable to being edited
within a text editor, there is a valid limitation imposed on when and
how you can edit the code.

Jacob Fugal

More information about the PLUG mailing list