For all you python web gurus.. (Turbogears)

Jonathan Ellis jonathan at
Thu Jan 26 14:13:39 MST 2006

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:52:58 -0700, "Dennis" <devel at>
> Anybody done anything with Turbogears (

I've evaluated it.

> I played with it a bit, went through their quick-start stuff.  
> Looks/feels ok.  I'm wondering if anyone has done anything extensive 
> with it?  Any problems?  Success stories?

Well, looking at the pieces of TG,

Mochikit is good.  I use it separate from TG.

Kid is pretty cool.  Very cool even.  Much much better than, say,
Cheetah.  (Another, older, templating system.)

CherryPy is OK.  I'm pretty sure I could live with it.

SQLObject is a mess.  I've spent some time using it, and
far too much time source diving in it, and it's just ugly.  You
_will_ have problems once you start doing anything remotely nontrivial
-- even large many-to-many joins make it choke.  And you won't be able
to figure out why, because the code isn't in very good shape.
(Or, at least it wasn't 6 months ago.) But, there do seem to be a lot 
of people whose projects are small enough that they don't run into
problems here.

The final straw for me is that the TG project lead seems to have
trouble saying No to feature proposals.  E.g., TG now supports
Cheetah _as well_ as Kid.  I don't think this is a good direction
for a project that started out trying to simplify things.

For me, I'd be more comfortable with CherryPy + Kid I'd run with that, 
and adding PyDO2 or SqlAlchemy as an SQLObject replacement.

BTW, there is a local python group -- for meetings,
mailing list, etc.  (As a matter of fact, we're planning a web toolkit
shootout for February.)

C++ is history repeated as tragedy. Java is history repeated as farce.  --Scott McKay

More information about the PLUG mailing list