Utah Politics/Region

Josh Coates jcoates at archive.org
Fri Feb 4 12:04:52 MST 2005

>I suppose we could fall into the pit of moral relativism..

art, i dont think you get it - **we're already in that pit!**

the reason we don't have slavery is because society changed it's mind about
what was 'just', and so they changed the law.  social justice isnt
absolute - societies have always changed their minds, and changed laws - and
they will keep doing it that way.  again, it doesnt make it 'right' or
'just' - that's the way it works.

we've hit a wall here, so i guess the thread is done - unless we want to
start a new one about braveheart.

btw - ryan byrd, this is hilarious:

>>"There is no evidence of any "Prima Nocte" laws in feudal Europe, EVEN IN
[all caps mine]


Josh Coates

-----Original Message-----
From: plug-bounces at plug.org [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.org]On Behalf Of
Art Pollard
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:49 AM
To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List; Provo Linux Users Group
Mailing List
Subject: Re: Utah Politics/Region

At 09:19 AM 2/4/2005, Derek Carter wrote:
>Ryan Byrd wrote:
>>There is no evidence of any "Prima Nocte" laws in feudal Europe, even
>>in France. It is an invention, designed to produce controversy, of our
>>beloved Hollywood (though allusions appear in Mozart's opera, Le Nozze
>>di Figaro.)

Actually, there is some evidence that it was a common law in
Europe.  Though not at the time of William Wallace but one or two hundred
years later.

But the point I was making still applies.  Perhaps a better example would
be that of American slavery which was perfectly legal and ratified by the
Supreme Court (see the Dredd Scott case) which ruled that slaves were

Just because a law is on the books does not mean that it is a law that
should be obeyed or honored by society.  I suppose we could fall into the
pit of moral relativism but if we stayed in that pit, there is likelihood
that there would still be slaves in the South, Bogg's extermination order
might still be standing, and it would still be permissible to slaughter
American indians.

I think that any of us would argue that the laws that permitted our
forefathers to enslave the blacks, kill the Mormons and native Americans
were just laws.  Just as there were laws 100-200 years ago that let others
enslave and kill unjustly, there are laws today that let one group to take
life liberty and property from one group or another unjustly.

Because you can get enough of your friends together to pass a law does not
make it just or that it should be obeyed or enforced.


Art Pollard
Suppliers of High Performance Text Retrieval Engines.
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