OT: CompUSA Collecting personal information / Is this a trend?

Scott Jackman scott.jackman at gmail.com
Tue Feb 1 20:38:53 MST 2005

I second the motion.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:08:12 -0700, Josh Coates <jcoates at archive.org> wrote:
> well, this is a mighty big can of worms that's been opened...
> as tempting as it is to get into it, how about we all just skip it and just
> kill this thread.
> or at least give it a new subject heading - i mean, it's not really fair to
> drag CompUSA into a discussion about utah religion/politics..
> ;-)
> Josh Coates
> http://www.jcoates.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: plug-bounces at plug.org [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.org]On Behalf Of
> Josh Hansen
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:30 PM
> To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
> Subject: Re: OT: CompUSA Collecting personal information / Is this a
> trend?
> Sasha Pachev wrote:
> >> Really don't want to get into a religion debate, as those can get
> >> pretty crazy.  I'm born and raised Utah LDS myself, but I know a few
> >> ethnic families and it's interesting to see how their values and
> >> heritage is effected by these situations.  All they really want to do
> >> is have a bit of wine with their dinner.  Not alcoholics, or lushes.
> >> Don't go around urinating on their nieghbor's bushes, drive drunk, or
> >> throw wild parties.  They just like a more formal dinner, as has been
> >> tradition.  Interesting how one group see's a store carrying wine as a
> >> direct attack on their values and disrespectfull and the other group
> >> see's a store that refuses to sell them as an attack on their values.
> >
> >
> > Eric:
> >
> > You are again failing to distinguish between a core value and a mere
> > preference. As much as I like bananas, I do not consider eating them a
> > part of my value system. If asked to give them up for a good cause, I
> > would. This would not be the same with prayer, scripture study,
> > attending church, and observing the Word of Wisdom. When I was baptized,
> > I made a promise to God to do those things, and I intend to do so rain
> > or shine for the rest of my life.
> >
> > I do not know of a culture or religion where one  considers drinking
> > alcohol during a formal dinner a true core value, something they believe
> > came to them in a revelation from God, something that has been at the
> > core of their religion, something that they believe has made their
> > families and communities strong and protected them from harm, something
> > they would do even when threatened with torture or death.
> >
> >
> Are you saying you would rather be tortured or killed than have an
> alcoholic beverage?  :|
> I'm not a Mormon so I may be off base here, but isn't the Word of Wisdom
>   just some advice that is considered wise to follow, rather than a
> commandment from God that you will go to Hell for not obeying?  I was
> under the impression that many early Mormon leaders, including Joe Smith
> and Brigham Young, were at least moderate drinkers.  If it was really
> something God cared so deeply about, why was it fine in their time, but
> forbidden now?  I don't understand why so many devout LDS church members
>      seem to believe that taking a sip of alcohol makes a person evil.
> Why punish a store for selling alcohol or tobacco?  It may be against
> your own core beliefs, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it's
> not like the stores force you to buy it when you go in.  If you don't
> want to drink it, you don't have to buy it, but why shouldn't it be
> available for those who do want it?  A store that is "Word of Wisdom
> compliant" that charges higher prices than a normal store sounds like
> someone is just out to swindle the faithful (and apparently succeeding
> at it, so more power to them I guess).  Personally I think it would be
> wiser to pay a lower price and simply not buy items that I don't want.
> Maybe having a glass of wine at the table is not as important to others
> in your community as not drinking is to you, but don't you think their
> rights should end where yours begin?  As in, if it doesn't affect you,
> don't worry about it?  Why would you care
> You think alcohol is harmful to a community and that making it hard to
> come by makes you safer?  I have lived in Texas and am familiar with the
> "dry counties" there, where no alcohol may be sold, and I'm quite sure
> they don't tend to have lower rates of crime, divorce, etc than normal
> counties, but maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually seen statistics.  I
> know that the average person I knew from those counties wasn't any nicer
> than someone from any other county though.
> I am a Utahn, and I know how Mormons feel about alcohol, and that is
> fine for them to feel that way.  However, like Art Pollard said, it
> amazes me that so many "conservatives" here don't seem to mind a huge
> government that acts as our moral police.  I mean, this is America, not
> Kuwait.  We don't need an all powerful DABC that gives steep fines to
> clubs at the drop of a hat with almost no oversight, a porn czar, and so
> on.  Whenever missionaries speak with me, they tell me how we have "free
> agency" to do what we want, but you would never guess that to be the
> belief of the LDS church from looking at our liquor laws.  Republicans
> here seem to get elected based on how "moral" they are, rather than how
> fiscally responsible they are, which is apparent from Utah's sky high
> tax rates and the amount of federal aid this state needs to get by.
> "Conservatives" here have no problem with a big government, they are
> perfectly happy with one as long as they are the ones running it.
> Please understand that I mean no offense to Mormons, and I apologize if
> I did offend anyone.  I have nothing against them and I am anything but
> a bigot or an "anti-Mormon".  I am sorry for being so far off-topic with
> this post as well, I just felt that I needed to rant after seeing some
> of the replies here.
> Cheers,
> -Josh
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