OT: CompUSA Collecting personal information / Is this a trend?

Josh Coates jcoates at archive.org
Tue Feb 1 18:08:12 MST 2005

well, this is a mighty big can of worms that's been opened...

as tempting as it is to get into it, how about we all just skip it and just
kill this thread.
or at least give it a new subject heading - i mean, it's not really fair to
drag CompUSA into a discussion about utah religion/politics..


Josh Coates

-----Original Message-----
From: plug-bounces at plug.org [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.org]On Behalf Of
Josh Hansen
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:30 PM
To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
Subject: Re: OT: CompUSA Collecting personal information / Is this a

Sasha Pachev wrote:
>> Really don't want to get into a religion debate, as those can get
>> pretty crazy.  I'm born and raised Utah LDS myself, but I know a few
>> ethnic families and it's interesting to see how their values and
>> heritage is effected by these situations.  All they really want to do
>> is have a bit of wine with their dinner.  Not alcoholics, or lushes.
>> Don't go around urinating on their nieghbor's bushes, drive drunk, or
>> throw wild parties.  They just like a more formal dinner, as has been
>> tradition.  Interesting how one group see's a store carrying wine as a
>> direct attack on their values and disrespectfull and the other group
>> see's a store that refuses to sell them as an attack on their values.
> Eric:
> You are again failing to distinguish between a core value and a mere
> preference. As much as I like bananas, I do not consider eating them a
> part of my value system. If asked to give them up for a good cause, I
> would. This would not be the same with prayer, scripture study,
> attending church, and observing the Word of Wisdom. When I was baptized,
> I made a promise to God to do those things, and I intend to do so rain
> or shine for the rest of my life.
> I do not know of a culture or religion where one  considers drinking
> alcohol during a formal dinner a true core value, something they believe
> came to them in a revelation from God, something that has been at the
> core of their religion, something that they believe has made their
> families and communities strong and protected them from harm, something
> they would do even when threatened with torture or death.

Are you saying you would rather be tortured or killed than have an
alcoholic beverage?  :|

I'm not a Mormon so I may be off base here, but isn't the Word of Wisdom
  just some advice that is considered wise to follow, rather than a
commandment from God that you will go to Hell for not obeying?  I was
under the impression that many early Mormon leaders, including Joe Smith
and Brigham Young, were at least moderate drinkers.  If it was really
something God cared so deeply about, why was it fine in their time, but
forbidden now?  I don't understand why so many devout LDS church members
     seem to believe that taking a sip of alcohol makes a person evil.

Why punish a store for selling alcohol or tobacco?  It may be against
your own core beliefs, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it's
not like the stores force you to buy it when you go in.  If you don't
want to drink it, you don't have to buy it, but why shouldn't it be
available for those who do want it?  A store that is "Word of Wisdom
compliant" that charges higher prices than a normal store sounds like
someone is just out to swindle the faithful (and apparently succeeding
at it, so more power to them I guess).  Personally I think it would be
wiser to pay a lower price and simply not buy items that I don't want.
Maybe having a glass of wine at the table is not as important to others
in your community as not drinking is to you, but don't you think their
rights should end where yours begin?  As in, if it doesn't affect you,
don't worry about it?  Why would you care

You think alcohol is harmful to a community and that making it hard to
come by makes you safer?  I have lived in Texas and am familiar with the
"dry counties" there, where no alcohol may be sold, and I'm quite sure
they don't tend to have lower rates of crime, divorce, etc than normal
counties, but maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually seen statistics.  I
know that the average person I knew from those counties wasn't any nicer
than someone from any other county though.

I am a Utahn, and I know how Mormons feel about alcohol, and that is
fine for them to feel that way.  However, like Art Pollard said, it
amazes me that so many "conservatives" here don't seem to mind a huge
government that acts as our moral police.  I mean, this is America, not
Kuwait.  We don't need an all powerful DABC that gives steep fines to
clubs at the drop of a hat with almost no oversight, a porn czar, and so
on.  Whenever missionaries speak with me, they tell me how we have "free
agency" to do what we want, but you would never guess that to be the
belief of the LDS church from looking at our liquor laws.  Republicans
here seem to get elected based on how "moral" they are, rather than how
fiscally responsible they are, which is apparent from Utah's sky high
tax rates and the amount of federal aid this state needs to get by.
"Conservatives" here have no problem with a big government, they are
perfectly happy with one as long as they are the ones running it.

Please understand that I mean no offense to Mormons, and I apologize if
I did offend anyone.  I have nothing against them and I am anything but
a bigot or an "anti-Mormon".  I am sorry for being so far off-topic with
this post as well, I just felt that I needed to rant after seeing some
of the replies here.


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