OSS coding Project - branched off from: Coding for a living - long

Hans Fugal hans at fugal.net
Fri Dec 30 17:51:41 MST 2005

I'm sorry, I had no intention of offense. It was simply intended as
constructive feedback. You stated that you do it to annoy English
majors, I pointed out it can annoy more than just English majors,
including the target group. This is not a PLUG phenomenon. ESR addresses
this fairly well somewhere IIRC, you can probably find it eventually by
starting here: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
(Naturally, this will start a flame war about how nobody elected ESR to
be the spokesman for our culture. Just be sure to change the topic, eh?)

I also certainly did not wish to imply that anyone is offended by how
you write, or that you are not welcome here. I believe that the
reasonable response in case of annoyment (if that is a word) is to just
skip the message and go on with life. Naturally some people will feel
the need to pick nits, and we have all been "some people" at some time,
and probably will be again. So at worst, we get flame wars. At best, a
few people ignore posts. I ignore more than half of this list anyway, so
I don't feel any guilt there. I ignore more than half of some other
lists I belong to. I just don't have the time to read everything.

Speaking of annoying people, I top-posted this. Maybe I'll mess with the
Reply-To settings of the list too... nah.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 at 17:02 -0700, Mister E wrote:
> Hans Fugal wrote:
> >Mister E wrote:
> >
> >>NOTE: If you can get through my *designed to frustrate English majors 
> >>on purpose email communication style*, then you must have grit worth 
> >>considering, within a wide range of purposes and/or levels of interface.
> >
> >
> >You must realize that you annoy or frustrate not only English majors, 
> >but the majority of hackers. Hackers tend to be very meticulous about 
> >language (you have to be to spend your life writing programs in computer 
> >languages with strict syntax), and therefore bad grammar and spelling 
> >grates on us. Some more than others, and some tolerate it more than 
> >others (hence the grammar nazi flamewars).
> >
> >But you must do what you think is best, of course.
> I'm back from my quasi vacation. Hence the delay in responding to this 
> thread, in which I usually just ignore all the bull crap you see in such 
> posts.  I don't mean to direct this at you personally Hans per se, but 
> instead at the content of the various flames and comments based on my 
> post.  But I'm sure that the intent will be lost at some point, much 
> like my post.
> I'm Sorry. I should have added a little more to those comments for 
> better understanding as to why I poke fun of correct language useage. 
> The English major jest started as just that, a jest.  When I was dating 
> my wife, I pulled the redneck routine for fun, more so than normal 
> whenever I wrote any kind of note to her.  She took it all in stride. 
> Thereafter, it became a bit more natural for me to use the style in 
> informal circles.  I've also used "it" over the years in such things as 
> emails and other areas, such as this list.  My moniker is "Mister Ed", 
> so the shoe fits, so to say.
> In regards to offending or annoying the majority of hackers, I don't see 
> any basis for this argument outside of a few members of the local 
> technical talent pool. I've been hanging with hackers, and tracking 
> cracker bad boys, for over 25 years world wide (geezz, maybe that makes 
> me a hacker too?  I seemed to have been sneered at as being someone 
> outside that category). I've never had an issue fitting in as "being 
> myself" until I recently joined PLUG this last summer.  I see this type 
> of comment as nothing more than an excuse for a few people in this group 
> to be intoloerant, arrogant and condescending.  Hackers tend to be 
> non-conformers that think outside the box and/or look for ways to 
> improve a technical situation, whatever aspects that situation might entail.
> My post was an offer of an opportunity for folks that want
> additional experience in programming without a huge hassle found with 
> obtaining a formal job (though I did extend formal positions in some 
> cases). Another target for the post could have been those that just 
> wanted to contribute to and/or improve our humble OSS project. However, 
> it turned into a thread containing some lame excuses for a few select 
> individuals to treat me like some sort of inferior person.  I'm sure if 
> I had rattled off about having multiple degrees from top edu 
> institutions and maybe done a bit more company name dropping (companies 
> I've worked for), maybe I'd get some "wow factor" generated on my behalf 
> (don't really care to nor do I need it personally though, so I haven't 
> done so).  I have dealings that extend into fields and professions that 
> require (somewhat) that I keep a lower public profile, so I'd prefer not 
> to post my resume publicly in order impress a few select people that 
> don't deserve such consideration, especially after the three fiascos 
> I've encountered while posting to this group in the past 6 months.
> Additionally, I don't subscribe to the idear of acting like I'm a
> borg-like programmer residing in a massive sea of bland looking 
> cubicles, nor to the showing off of academic prowess in an informal 
> setting such as this.  Personally. I prefer to keep my acedemic thesis 
> writ limited to those papers I submit to professors and acedemic 
> journals during my "tours of duty" that I embark upon from time to 
> time... ie when I collect another hanging dust collector for my wall 
> (official paper thingy indicating I'm edjew-mah-kated and smarter than 
> my twin brother named bubbagum).
> Despite all this, and do not get me wrong from the above comments, I do 
> enjoy reading the advice and posts from most of the people on this list. 
>  There are too many people to list that I like (probably 96% of ya'all 
> - this includes you Hans), as I'd most likely leave a few out by 
> accident.  I also like going to the meetings when I am able to attend. 
> This is the main reason I haven't left PLUG and gone back into the 
> woodwork from whence I came, like some folks have done the past few 
> months.  So ... to those that can handle 3-12 redneck words in my posts, 
> thanks! To those in between, I can look at toning it down... maybe.  BUT 
> to those that are full of negativity and/or flame me or other peeps 
> nearly every single time they post ... get real, get a clue and lose the 
> lemming suit (or maybe just lose the condescending, arrogant and 
> intolerant attributes, and that will be a very good start - for those 
> that have such a problem).
> Mister Ed ... of course ... of course!
> PS - For those that expressed an interest in helping out on our humble 
> OSS project, many thanks.  If considering to contribute, please do.  And 
> finally, if ya got lost in the translation, sorry it didn't work out.
> /*
> PLUG: http://plug.org, #utah on irc.freenode.net
> Unsubscribe: http://plug.org/mailman/options/plug
> Don't fear the penguin.
> */

Hans Fugal ; http://hans.fugal.net
There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the 
right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
    -- Johann Sebastian Bach
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