Struts, Spring, Tapestry, oh my!

Jonathan Ellis jonathan at
Wed Aug 10 19:57:22 MDT 2005

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:37:49 -0600, "Michael Torrie"
<torriem at> said:
> This whole weird drug dependency on xml files is one of the main things
> that drives me away from anything Java.  It's so bad and very confusing
> and not very readable either.  It only gets worse when you need to mix
> in other things like Spring.

Well, there's good reasons for XML coming out of your ears in Java-land
-- the language just isn't sufficiently dynamic enough to do some things
itself, and XML allows some of that flexibility.

For other things (like ORM--*cough* Hibernate *cough*) I'm guessing it's
just a case of "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail." 
I much prefer the approach of SimpleORM there.  Of course, it's not as
good as what you see in dynamic languages (PyDO, ActiveRecord), but it's
well-designed for all that.  The author's whitepaper is mandatory
reading for anyone interested in ORM, IMO.  Very clueful guy.

> In my opinion, for what I am doing on a daily basis, anything Java for
> web apps is overkill.  Over-designed, over-abstracted.  Did I mention
> over-abstracted?

Preach it! :)


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