Did Ed Snowden do the right thing?
joshua at themarshians.com
Mon Jun 10 22:59:03 MDT 2013
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Nicholas Leippe <nick at leippe.com> wrote:
> Defend the implication that the LDS church receives no gain from its
> membership. Last I knew its coffers were pretty full. The remuneration per
> ward from Salt Lake for financial aid of its local members is also
> frequently quite inequitable. There are wards collecting $100k+ each month
> in tithing, sending it all to Salt Lake, and being allocated mere $1000s of
> it in return--insufficient to help all the needy families in their own
That is an extremely misguided view of what Tithing is used for, how it
differs from fast offerings, and what the actual figures really are. If
they were simply paying tithing so the youth could go to camp during the
summer, you'd have a point. If tithing was used for helping needy families,
you'd be right. Neither of those are the case, so I can only assume you
haven't studied it well enough to make a cogent argument.
> Also, you must both qualify and quantify "such joy in their hearts". Esp.
> re the fact that Utah is the state with the highest use of anti-depressants
> per capita. That's not a coincidence or simply correlation without
Have you ever considered it might be the other half of the Utah population
that is taking the anti-depressants because they are forced to live in Zion
with the Mormons? The anti-depressant thing doesn't make complete sense to
me since there are other studies that show Religious people are happier in
general. What it boils down to for me is that you can find a study or a
figure to support any position you want. So, why be so antagonistic toward
someone who has found his place in this world where you haven't.
> In defense of Sasha's position, I will qualify that there do exist varying
> pockets of micro-cultures among the LDS church. *Some* of them, function
> altruistically and to the mutual benefit of all. Something Sasha may have
> not experienced yet is some of the other micro cultures that exist--several
> of which I have personally experienced, and others which have been
> recounted to me first hand, which do not function in the idyllic fashion
> Sasha has experienced. To head off objection from Sasha, these other micro
> cultures in no way violate the principles that the church espouses--they
> are right in line with the general handbook of instruction also--you can't
> say they are apostate wards or anything and dismiss them or the effects
> they have on their members--they must be included in the equation.
This isn't much different than any other social group though. In any large
social group, norms can be diluted at local levels. What may be considered
"right in line with the general handbook of instructions" is up to
interpretation by the relative understanding of the people at the local
level. If those local interpretations sufficiently deviate from the larger
group, then the rest of the group must me made aware to bring the lesser
group in line with the whole or have the group removed. This has been
studied by sociologists well before the LDS church was around. I'm sure
you'll find that most of your in-groups will have similar issues.
More information about the PLUG