jasonk at riseup.net
Thu Dec 12 11:49:08 MST 2013
Thanks for the explanation. I think if we're to make good decisions
regarding these ideas and technologies, they have to be well understood
As a cloud evangelist, what is your take on being able to trust 'the
cloud?' Personally, I don't put much trust in
computers/infrastructure/software that I don't run or can't inspect -
or, more likely, can't be inspected by people I trust. Of course, there
is a security/usability trade-off here: I don't care so much about
streaming music from the cloud, but I don't want government spys (or
perhaps worse, advertising spys) reading my e-mail - hence I am not
using GMail. Entire governments are leaving SaaS services and building
their own infrastructure. "Not hosted in the USA" is now a requested
Personally, I don't see the cloud as the next big thing. I see it as on
a hype curve. Right now it's very high on the curve, but the recent
revelations - coupled with the fact that you have to completely trust
your providers - is bringing it slowly down.
On 12/12/2013 11:08 AM, Grant Shipley wrote:
> Let's clear up what cloud actually means then. There are three types of
> cloud computing:
> IaaS - Infrastructure as a service
> Think Amazon EC2, Google Compute Engine here. The only thing provided to
> the user is the hardware / vm. The user is responsible for providing the
> operating system, updating it, apply security errata, installing and
> managing all applications, tuning the OS - databases - application servers
> etc. It addresses a real concern in the industry by reducing the time to
> market for getting servers quickly. With IaaS, you can spin up 1000
> machines in a matter of minutes and grow as demand quires it. The only
> problem, no one knows what their final bill will be every month.
> You have to bring your sys admins, application code, and users along with
> PaaS - Platform as a service
> The OpenShift, Heroku, CloudFoundry here. PaaS sits on top of IaaS to
> automate even more of the environment. Typically the PaaS will manage all
> aspects of the environment for you. This includes database tuning,
> automatic scaling, application server management, security updates to OS
> and runtimes, etc. Users of PaaS need to deploy and be responsible for the
> application code that is deployed on the environment to ensure it is
> robust, scalable, and cloud friendly.
> You have to bring your application code and users along with you.
> SaaS - Software as a Service
> Think salesforce.com, facebook, gmail, dropbox here. Software as a service
> is a WYSIWG environment. The platform manages everything for you and often
> times you can't customize the application code. This is the cloud
> technology that has been around the longest and widely adopted.
> You have to bring your users and your data to the table here.
> The adoption rate among these three cloud technologies are as follows:
> SaaS - Huge adoption. This was a buzz word 8 years ago and we really don't
> hear much about it anymore because its widely accepted and in use by 99% of
> all corporations today.
> IaaS - medium adoption. People still have concerns about moving their
> workloads to a public cloud provider (ec2) but a lot of people are making
> this move. When I talk about cloud computing to companies, one of the
> first things I hear is -- we can't put our users email address and data in
> a public cloud. Our data is so important we need a 5 million dollar oracle
> RAC server behind 15 firewalls. I think ask them what they use for sales
> automation tools. They proudly respond with Salesforce.com. Face -> Palm.
> People don't realize that they are storing much more than users data in
> the public cloud today. With SF.com they are storing all of their
> financials and forecasts. Having access to someone sf.com environment is
> more damning that having access to their internal oracle db.
> PaaS - low adoption. This is the new kid on the block. I fully expect
> this to be mainstream and every developer will be using a PaaS in 3-5 years
> as they see the benefits for development. The tidal wave is coming. It's
> best for us developers to go ahead and get familiar with it because it is
> Now, just to be clear. You will hear a lot of other crap about cloud
> computing. IMO ignore it. People and companies will tout things such as
> mBaaS (Mobile backend as a service) MWaaS (Middle Ware as a Service) etc.
> All of these new buzz word terms can be recognized in one of three main
> categories (IaaS, PaaS, SaaS). I don't know why people are clinging to and
> making up new as a services acronyms. It just further confuses everyone
> knew to cloud computing and is hindering the adoption of this fantastic
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Jason Klebs <jasonk at riseup.net> wrote:
>> In my opinion, 'the cloud' is a buzz-word, and regarding it, people act
>> accordingly. Buzz-words are meant to diminish understanding of
>> something, not enhance it. Therefore, a lot of places don't weigh the
>> benefits and drawbacks of what is essentially a move to another hosting
>> While we're opening up cans of worms...
>> I have assumed (even pre-Snowden) that every EC2 instance comes with
>> root access for the NSA built-in. Thoughts on this?
>> On 12/12/2013 10:21 AM, Jonathan Duncan wrote:
>>> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:03 AM, S. Dale Morrey <sdalemorrey at gmail.com
>>>> For the most part, you can't just migrate existing systems to "the
>>>> cloud(tm)". You really do need to think of it as a re-implementation
>>>> and expect your costs to follow accordingly.
>>>> Agreed. The Cloud is just another tool. Like any tool, if used properly
>>> can be helpful, if used improperly can be deadly. The company I am
>>> currently with is in the process of migrating all services to the cloud.
>>> This includes an entire rewrite of the code base and entirely new system
>>> architecture. It is a mistake to think of the Cloud in the same way as
>>> would think of traditional physical servers. For me, learning to use the
>>> Cloud effectively has required me to adopt a new paradigm.
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>>> Don't fear the penguin.
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