Webdev: the times, they are a changin'
Thomas S Hatch
thatch45 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 16 20:43:05 MDT 2012
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Tod Hansmann <plug.org at todandlorna.com>wrote:
> PLUG peeps,
> mid-90's. I did CGI with C. I did PHP since PHP3 came out. I have
> attempted several times to look at JavaEE and the lives I've broken
> because of the rage it induced is tragic to behold. So I'm not "new" to
> the field, I just haven't done any serious webdev outside of PHP or
> django in a while.
> The problem: Web dev sucks. PHP is still, well, PHP. It was nice as a
> change of pace from CGI. I like that it's simple, and works easily with
> Apache. It just doesn't perform well, and it's PHP. The problem I'm
> faced with is, what else is there, really? How can I just do simple
> webdev again without the problem that is PHP? (Seriously, when your
> interpreter performs differently based on what KIND of whitespace you
> have between your brackets, you are no longer my friend.)
> Python: Django and Pylons are both overcomplicated and constantly
> changing. (Is it just a python thing in general to wildly change your
> codebase on a whim?) I like Django, I've worked with it, but if I
> wanted to write a blog, right now, I could do it from scratch in a few
> hours with PHP if I knew nothing of PHP (or in my sister's case when she
> did so, any programming at all), or I could spend the next 4 days
> learning django enough to start actually writing the code for my blog in
> python, and then wonder how the heck it's getting executed under all
> those layers.
> Ruby: I realize this is a personal thing, but I hate Ruby. Regardless,
> Rails is no saner than django, and its performance is still terrible,
> even if I didn't hate Ruby. A friend of mine like Sinatra, but agrees
> that the Ruby side too suffers from changing way too much for our tastes
> between versions.
> Perl: Well, I've been looking at this. It's still good, but it's still
> the old CGI model. There's progress with PSGI, but it's all very
> experimental, or if not considered such, doesn't work with Apache at all
> (or is just a veneer over CGI/FastCGI). mod_psgi is... less than
> mature. So I guess if I'm going back to CGI, I'm fine, but that's not
> "the modern way", is it? Maybe this is stable/mature for Perl? I've
> never been part of Perl culture, so I don't know.
> There's my overall feel, what's yours? (Gundy's going to be in here for
> django, I'm sure. I'm all for it, if it would just get out of the way
> with it's apps and its huge learning curve) How would you make web dev
> fun and easy and stable again? (As stable as web dev ever gets, I suppose)
> -Tod Hansmann
> PLUG: http://plug.org, #utah on irc.freenode.net
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