OT - I don't _hate_ McMansions
charlescurley at charlescurley.com
Sun Jun 29 12:57:35 MDT 2008
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 01:15:56PM -0600, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> Von Fugal wrote:
>> <quote name="Shane Hathaway" date="Sat, 28 Jun 2008 at 02:15 -0600">
>>> Von, you really need to just put up a web site about your theories on
>>> how to properly structure the government. It would lend a lot more
>>> credibility to your arguments than these emotional debates do. You
>>> could even have a big FAQ section that responds to people's
>>> misgivings about your ideas.
>> There's already a Campaign for Liberty website.
> It's too bad you have to fall back on that site
> (www.campaignforliberty.com), since the site has scary connotations:
> - The book is named "The Revolution: A Manifesto"? Seriously? The
> title is reminiscent of Marx.
I don't know why it should remind you of Marx, since he didn't
seriously advocate violent revolution. He thought that the triumph of
the proletariat was inevitable. When the Paris Uprising occurred in
1848, the rioters claimed to be Marxists, whereupon Marx quipped "I am
not a Marxist." Perhaps it reminds you of violence committed in the
name of a faux Marxism warped far from what Marx meant, such as the
Russian Revolution or the Chinese civil war.
Not to mention the French revolution, or the American. However, not
all revolutions are violent. We refer to the computer revolution or
the green revolution of the 1950s and 1960s. And there's the
John Adams pointed out that the real American Revolution took place in
the hearts and minds of the American people in the 20 or so years
before 1774, and that the War for Independence was an aftermath or
consequence. (I credit much of that to his cousin Sam.)
I see nothing on that site calling specifically for violent revolution
or any violence at all. I think you're reading something in that isn't
> - "The Revolution Continues" has a clever emphasis on the word "love"
> spelled backwards. I don't know if this is intended to remind the
> reader of substance-starved ideas like "make love, not war", but it does
> for me.
Knowing Ernie Hancock, who came up with the original cute
revolution/love graphic, "make love, not war" was on his mind, but by
no means the whole of it. A revolution can be loving, that is, done
for love, say for an ideal, such as liberty. That is how I read it,
"make love, not war" may come across to you as substance-free. Many
people touted it in a vacuous substance free way even in the 1960s
when it first became widespread. Is it so vacuous, though, to prefer
peace and co-operation over perpetual war in the name of ideals which
are ignored, even trampled upon?
> - With so many references to Ron Paul, the site seems like a thinly
> disguised campaign to elect Ron Paul rather than the home page for a
> political movement.
There does seem to be a bit of a "cult of personality" there, doesn't
there? Dr.Paul does seem to attract a bit of that, probably to his
embarrassment. I'm prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt and
look for the substance.
Unfortunately there seem to be "cults of personality" around most
major politicians these days, whether the campaigns actively encourage
them or not. That says more about the failings of the people involved
than it does about the politicians. Those pols who encourage and take
advantage of their "cults of personality" are reprehensible, but so
are the people who fall for the "cults of personality".
Similarly for the "cults of personality" that grow up around so-called
"celebrities". How much more vacuous can you get? (Don't answer, I
don't want to know.)
If you wish to disparage Paul here, fine. But if so, please be an
equal opportunity disparager of "cults of personality" all around.
> I can't advocate or donate to a group with such an unclear message. I
> looked at the mission statement, and it's reasonable until the statement
> "Our stances on other issues can be deduced from these general
> principles". The problem is that everyone will make different
> deductions. I need to see a list of those deductions before I can make
> any decisions about this movement.
Why don't you see what your own deductions are and see if other folk
The campaign is to encourage like minded folks to get involved in the
political process. Of necessity the proposals are vague. This is partly
to be more inclusive, but also because there is no point in specific
policy proposals until you can deliver them. But there are some pretty
good hints, like condemning the major media and the two main parties
for refusing even to talk about bringing American troops home from the
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