OT - I don't _hate_ McMansions
von at fugal.net
Sat Jun 28 00:47:55 MDT 2008
<quote name="Levi Pearson" date="Fri, 27 Jun 2008 at 23:34 -0600">
> Andy Bradford <amb-plug at bradfords.org> writes:
> > And unless one is atheist, one believes those rights come directly from
> > God or The Creator (as hinted at in the Declaration of Independence).
> > But then, who ever reads such antiquated documents anyway?
> Even atheists can give rational justification for inalienable rights,
> which exist due to rational codes of ethics. Indeed the wording of
> 'We hold these truths to be self-evident' suggests that God is not
> actually part of the reasoning.
> This isn't to say that I don't believe the rights came from God, but I
> believe it is useful to be able to argue politics without an appeal to
> divinity. A government that supports freedom of religion should not
> rely on religious tenets.
> Here are some other interesting passages from the Declaration of
> "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from
> the consent of the governed"
> This suggests to me that the government may justly develop powers
> beyond the basic protection of natural rights through democratic
> "... institute new Government, laying its foundation on such
> principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall
> seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
> Again, government may be organized by its constituents in such a way
> that they perceive likely to bring about their safety and happiness.
> I interpret this rather more broadly than you seem to.
> "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established
> should not be changed for light and transient causes;"
> Our government has, by now, been long established itself. Not that
> I'm accusing you and Von of being on the cusp of revolution, but you
> do propose fairly radical change. Perhaps you don't view your cause
> as light or transient, but opinions certainly vary on that, and at the
> moment I believe you are in a small minority.
Abandoning the constitution for democracy by the sword, for terror, and
for 'security.' I'm not saying your ideas are tantamount to these, but I
am saying we must be watchful, and I ask you at least try to justify
regulation against rights and liberty as I described.
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