UVSC BYU U of U etc was"Software Engineering
Mister.Ed at AgoraCart.com
Sat Feb 17 14:06:05 MST 2007
Levi Pearson wrote:
> Mister E <Mister.Ed at AgoraCart.com> writes:
>> I think a lot of this conversation is silly. I find it amusing
>> reading comments from people patting themselves on the back for
>> obtaining a degree and/or attending a particular institution of higher
>> learning. An institution can only "institutionalize" your patterns
>> according to their preferred method set.
> I don't think very many Universities are organized enough to brainwash
> students in the way you describe. Professors are a varied bunch, and
> tend to like to do things their own way. Students are also varied,
> and are going to get different things out of interaction with
> different professors.
My comments are not about brainwashing. That would imply intent and an
organized effort to do so. Getting a bunch of academics together to form
consensus (aka plotting against society ... lol) only happens when
funding is needed and/or threatened.
The point still stands, it's an amusing conversation, as it always is,
when discussed from an academic standpoint. I was not implying that
going to school is a waste of time, nor any related offspring. I am a
professional student and have attended some of the finest institutions
in the country, in business and scientific fields, yet I find it funny
when someone proclaims their education as "better than thou". This is my
"blanket" thought on the subject rather than a directional assertion.
> One of the biggest reasons to go to a University, and this reason has
> existed since the very first schools in ancient Greece, is to be able
> to interact with the people who know the kinds of things you want to
> know. Secondarily would be the resources for study, and finally would
> be the structure that helps to guide you in your learning. I agree
> that the thinking and learning MUST come from the student, but the
> University environment is there to provide resources that are
> extremely beneficial to self-learners, making them able to learn much,
> much faster and more deeply than they would without them.
For most folks, this is correct, for others, it is not as beneficial in
this regard and may even be a hindrance. But we don't need the ancients
to tell us these things, we still practice this ritual and even embrace
it to some extent within our professional and hobby type associations,
such as this group.
But the gist of this post is this: each school is going to have it's
strengths and weaknesses. Just don't tell me which one is better in a
blanket statement. BYU seems to be competing with the likes of MIT,
which it falls short of program wide even though it is a great target to
aspire to, and UVSC seems more practical in it's approach to make it's
graduates more employable now, at a programming level. If I want to hire
an engineer (software or otherwise) or a project manager and only could
chose between BYU and UVSC graduates, I'd pick BYU. If I needed a
programmer, I'd probably chose more UVSC graduates as a generalized
rule. Right now I hire or make employment offers under the "UVSC"
category at a rates of 4 to 1 against "BYU". My biggest problem with BYU
graduates (from what I've seen so far the last 3 years since moving back
to the area) is that they figure they have "already arrived" and demand
large salaries when the ink on their degree is still wet (they say: Show
me the money!!! yet they have not proven their worth). In regards to
any potential employee that approaches me, this is my take: Prove to me
you want to work for my company or on our projects, show some ownership
in your work and some initiative, then I will reward as best I can
and/or like no other. If you can't do that, move on... as ya don't have
the character traits I seek. Unfortunately, a lot of BYU graduates I've
interviewed, especially the last 6 months, can't figure that one out.
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