bryan.sant at gmail.com
Tue Feb 13 14:30:26 MST 2007
On 2/13/07, Levi Pearson <levi at cold.org> wrote:
> Since you didn't reply to the other points I made, I will assume that
> you now realize that the Java tools, although they are really very
> nice and possibly the most advanced available tools of their kind, are
> not revolutionary. Most of the features you listed above existed in
> Smalltalk systems, some of them going back to the 80s. The HotSpot
> technology that makes Java so fast was borrowed from Smalltalk-related
> code, too. The success of Java was due to a marketing coup at a time
> when the Smalltalk vendors made poor business decisions, not any real
> technical superiority. It has since developed tools beyond where
> Smalltalk was, but the language is still not as nice as Smalltalk, at
> least in my humble opinion. :)
I've haven't used the tools you mentioned, so I can't come back with a
snappy response. I'll have to use them, and then deem them to suck in
comparison to Eclipse/NetBeans. I'm downloading Squeak right now, and
plan on making an objective comparison. If Squeak is not
state-of-the-art, you just point me to what is and I'll take a look
> You say you're not trying to argue that Java is the best, but it
> certainly looks like you are to me. Go ahead and protest if you like,
> but no one believes you. As for me, I've never said anything to
NO ONE believes me? Only a Sith thinks in absolutes!
I do enjoy espousing the virtues of Java and debating the critics.
For me, Java is the best. I'm an aggressive evangelizer. I like
representing my point of view. But, intellectually, I know that Java
isn't the best thing for all people or all purposes. To each his own.
> suggest that I think people want to use Lisp. Clearly, most people
> don't, whether out of ignorance or preference. Really, that's fine
> with me, though I'd be happy to talk Lisp with someone who wanted to
> learn it. And, by the way, Common Lisp runtimes are very fast.
And my blood doesn't boil when you or someone mentions the virtues of
Lips. That's sensational.
> The JVM, thanks to HotSpot and the other new dynamic optimization and
> garbage collection technologies, is indeed a very nice platform for
> statically-typed languages. Hopefully it will evolve into a very nice
> platform for dynamically-typed languages, too. I've got nothing bad
JSR 292 will make alterations to the Java bytecode format and JVM to
make it more dynamic language friendly.
> to say about it, aside from the fact that it's still rather
> Java-centric. But this, again, is an incremental improvement. I'm
> happy that the technology is being used, though, instead of just
> rotting in some old codebase somewhere, and I hope that it grows
> better support for dynamically-typed languages.
Java 7 will be even better for dynamic langs.
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