perhaps a little too much honesty (was: RE: Job Posting (.04KReward!) Jr. Linux Admin + Windows Support)

Josh Coates jcoates at berkeleydata.net
Sat Sep 9 13:09:52 MDT 2006


perhaps a little too much honesty is right! ;-)

seems like every time i get around to posting on plug, things get personal
real fast.

> 3) Two of my friends have worked for you. Both left quickly. 
> Neither has ever bad mouthed you, but their actions speak 
> loudly. 

stuart - this seems awfully inappropriate of you to bring up in a public
forum.  but since you have, i feel obligated to set the record straight -
we've had two employees that 'left quickly' because they were asked to
leave.  however, both of them are good people that i wish well.

> When you first arrived in the area, you earned a lot 
> of respect and good will. Since then, I think you've lost 
> some of it. I have no idea what you can do about this.

thank you for your concern about my personal reputation, but i'm not sure
where you come off making these sorts of assessments, and again, i don't why
you think it's okay to post things like this in response to a job posting.

i've always tried to helpful and honest - but, yes, this often results in me
offending people, and this will likely continue.  i apologize when it's
appropriate, and don't when it's not.

geesh, i really should stay off this list.  you'd think i would've learned
by now..

-josh


> -----Original Message-----
> From: plug-bounces at plug.org [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.org] On 
> Behalf Of Stuart Jansen
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:03 PM
> To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List
> Subject: perhaps a little too much honesty (was: RE: Job 
> Posting (.04KReward!) Jr. Linux Admin + Windows Support)
> 
> On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 16:07 -0600, Josh Coates wrote:
> > we've had a surpringly low turnout of resumes for these positions.  
> > either i'm in a whole lot kill files, or we've already hit 
> recruiting 
> > saturation on the plug list, and friends of those on the 
> plug list..  
> > ;-)
> 
> Personally, I think you need to do more to sell your company.
> 
> 1) Maybe Plug is saturated. I don't remember seeing a 
> matching post to the sllug-jobs list. If you're interested in 
> a Ruby guy, you should post to URUG too. I have no idea if 
> you've posted to the local Windows groups, but if you haven't 
> they do exist and you should search there too.
> 
> 2) Many of us are comfortable where we are. A few years ago 
> that wasn't necessarily true, but the rising tide has lifted 
> many boats. To switch jobs, I would need to know that
> 
>   a) I will spend less that 3 hours per week using a Windows
>      box. Yes, I'm that proud and stubborn. I can afford to be.
>      I suspect many others can too. If you want Windows people,
>      this ain't the place.
> 
>   b) I need to know that the management rocks. When it comes to
>      technical decisions, management has to either get out of
>      the way or be clueful enough to convince me they're right.
>      The second is better. I want to know that management will
>      protect me from pointless stuff so that I can do what I
>      enjoy: using computers to create stuff and solve problems.
> 
>   c) I will have friends at work. If you identify and attract
>      the community's alpha-geeks, others will follow. If I
>      don't already know someone in the company, demonstrate
>      that I will fit in with the people there. I don't mean
>      talking the talk (your initial post did that well), I mean
>      walking the walk. For instance, I know you have at least
>      one employee that is active in the local Python community.
>      (Or used to be. I don't like Python enough to keep close
>      tabs on that particular community.)
> 
>   d) The pay has to be good. I doubt this will be a problem for
>      you. In the past Utah employers had a reputation for being
>      stingy. In the last year, competition for good employees
>      has significantly increased. I suspect most people with
>      skills have already moved to better paying positions. In
>      other words, pay is important but it's not most important.
> 
> 3) Two of my friends have worked for you. Both left quickly. 
> Neither has ever bad mouthed you, but their actions speak 
> loudly. When you first arrived in the area, you earned a lot 
> of respect and good will. Since then, I think you've lost 
> some of it. I have no idea what you can do about this.
> 
> In general, Linux users are proud and idealistic. In the 
> past, we had to be to survive. As Linux grows, today we can 
> afford to be. Some people love to do Windows development. I 
> doubt you'll find many of them here.
> Most have invested their lives in Windows and probably 
> haven't had time to explore Linux. Other people learn Windows 
> because they think it's the safe choice. I'd call them 
> fickle, but maybe you'd probably call them pragmatic. Either 
> way they're not passionate. Not the type of person I want to 
> work with, and probably not the type of person you want to hire.
> 
> You'll notice I've concentrated on Linux. If you really want 
> a Ruby guy, ask URUG for tips. You'll find they're a more 
> friendly lot. Heck, because of their influence even I'm 
> friendlier on the URUG list.
> 
> I haven't been able to go to a geek dinner for a long time 
> now, so I don't know if you're familiar with DevUtah. That'd 
> be a great place to discover additional communities you can 
> tap. I notice there's a blog on mozy.com with pretty 
> interesting info. Sadly, it doesn't look like it gets much 
> love, but if it did maybe you could use it to tap the various 
> Utah blogging communities. The question is, how much should 
> you invest in each community? Posting a $4k announcement is 
> cheap. Identifying the communities most likely to produce 
> results then building cred is probably going to provide more 
> return in the long term.
> 
> -- 
> Stuart Jansen              e-mail/jabber: sjansen at buscaluz.org
>                            google talk:   stuart.jansen at gmail.com
> 
> "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look 
> at the results." -- Winston Churchill
> 




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