java follies [was: PHP vs Perl (Put on flame proof gear)]

Charles Curley charlescurley at charlescurley.com
Sat Mar 18 12:01:18 MST 2006


On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 11:28:19AM -0700, Stuart Jansen wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-03-18 at 10:27 -0700, Kenneth Burgener wrote:
> > Stuart Jansen wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2006-03-18 at 01:46 -0700, Ryan Simpkins wrote:
> > > And during the evenings, instead of watching TV, repent and learn Ruby.
> > > Or Python. Or Perl. But not Java, because while it's a much better
> > > designed language than PHP, it's still evil.
> > 
> > 
> > If Java is a much better designed language, then why is it evil? That
> > statement seems counter intuitive to me.
> 
> The shear verbosity of Java is a pain. Instead of doing things the right
> way, it encourages people to cut corners. ("throws Exception") Many
> people deal with this by using IDEs. So now you have to learn the
> language _and_ a monstrously complicated program that's really only good
> for one thing.
> 
> The community that surrounds a language is also important. For some
> reason Java programmers aren't happy producing simple solutions, they
> have to build frameworks with the potential to solve every problem
> mankind might ever face. An ability to perform an insane number of XML
> push ups every day is seen as a virtue instead of the lack of vision it
> really represents.

Not only that, but they have to re-invent every wheel in the universe,
because the wheels have to run on the JVM. Why?

> 
> J2EE and Struts should have sent off warning alarms a long time ago.
> Only in the last few years has the community realized just how insane
> they are, and how desperately they need to be simplified.
> 
> Java was specifically designed to deal with lowest common denominator
> programmers. As a programmer's experience increases, she should become
> exponentially more productive. Java limits that growth to a more
> logarithmic curve. But on the up side, it makes it harder for the moron
> two cubicles down to completely doom large team projects.
> 

In other words, Java is object oriented Ada. Exactly so.

I'm in the process of learning Java, and the verbosity is
excruciatingly painful. And without #defines, there is no way to use
macros to reduce the verbosity of oft-repeated snippits.

And there does not seem to be any simple way to do anything. Well, not
entirely true: interators are cute. But are iterators there because
the Java designers don't trust you to write a loop correctly?

I was horrified to find that O'Reilly's idea of a Nutshell book on
Java is 1200+ pages, and again to find that it is incomplete.

-- 

Charles Curley                  /"\    ASCII Ribbon Campaign
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