in defense of Java, again [was: Re: Task Scheduling]
jonathan at carnageblender.com
Wed Jan 25 15:56:56 MST 2006
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:23:43 -0700, "Bryan Sant" <bryan.sant at gmail.com>
> On 1/25/06, Roberto Mello <rmello at fslc.usu.edu> wrote:
> Yikes. Can't I just mod this as troll and move on?
Oh, crap. Somebody pushed Bryan's "Rabid java defense" button.
> > - Developer performance goes (way) up
> This is only true if you're restricted to use vim or emacs.
> If you use an IDE such as Eclipse or NetBeans, your
> productivity with Java and these tools far outstrips that of dynamic
Have you actually used a modern dynamic language like Python for more
than a couple days? Have you used it with a similarly modern IDE,
like Wing or Komodo?
I come from the Java camp. I've presented at the Utah Java UG, twice.
I'm no novice. But I started doing Python full-time about a year ago
and I feel _hugely_ more productive.
It frustrates me: there's this growing camp of people saying,
"We've been there! We know Java! But we recognize a better thing
when we see it!" but [some] Java people stick their heads in the sand
and say, "I do not like green eggs and ham! I do not like them,
Sam I Am!"
And to a point it's understandable when you've invested all this
time and effort in a system, to not want to start over in a new one.
But it's still disappointing to see.
> So long as it is small enough for a single person or small group to
> maintain. For larger projects, type-safety and mature frameworks save
> time and reduce errors.
I used to think this, too. Now, I'm not so sure.
But, since I'm going to do my best to never work for a large company
again, I don't really care too much. The amount of functionality
a small group can achieve in Python is staggering. The vast majority
of projects won't _need_ more than a handful of developers, with
the acompanying exponential increase in time lost to communication
> > - Need for consultants goes down
> If your staff isn't skilled enough to work with Java, then I'm sure
> this is true.
Oh, come on. Let's be honest here. Look at poor Ryan over there --
he's barely sure what J2EE _is_, let alone whether his project needs it.
With very few exceptions (*cough* twisted *cough*) you don't
see this kind of bloated monstrosity in the Python world.
Now, here we're conflating Java-the-language with Java-the-set-of-
standards. But you don't see one without the other very often,
and that's where the consultants suck the blood out of the industry.
C++ is history repeated as tragedy. Java is history repeated as farce. --Scott McKay
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