[OT] Are we a democracy or a republic?
torriem at chem.byu.edu
Fri Sep 2 20:52:05 MDT 2005
Andy Bradford wrote:
> Based on all the laws being passed and the freedoms being removed from
> the People of the United States, I would say we are definitely sliding
> into collectivism/socialism.
Socialism and freedom are not diametrically opposed. They are merely 2
sides of orthagonal axis. One can slide towards socialism (IE the
Mormon ideal of Zion) and still have freedom. One can also slide into
socialism and dictatorship (which is communism by definition).
Generally I think we are the least socialistic nation in the world and
one of the most free. Yet we can still slide into dictatorship. Anyway
my point is there is the economic spectrum and the political spectrum
that are 90 degrees to each other. It's not just a 1-dimensional thing.
> Look at the recent ruling surrounding ``eminent domain.'' Any law that
> allows one man (or corporation) to take away the property of another
> man, is clearly socialist.
The entire basis of our nation is compromise between individual rights
and the good of the entire population (as defined by the majority of the
population). It is a compromise between the desire and need for freedom
and the need for order and progress. Yes this very founding is, by your
> Its wrong for me to steal from my neighbor, but if I own a big company
> and can pad the pockets of the politicians, suddenly it is legal.
No one here has said anything about bribery or corporate fraud being
okay. If there are bad laws, we need to change them.
> Oh, its for the good of the society they say... socialism I say.
It sounds to me like you would much rather favor anarchism as a form of
government. This is actually not a bad position to take. One could
argue that a true anarchy combined with complete and unimpeded markets
is the way to go.
> And to Lonnie Olson who thinks socialism can work, we have Russia, China
> and Germany to study as stark examples of just how well it can work.
Well you need to define your terms more carefully. These are all
wonderful examples of how communism failed. communism was a failed
attempt to achieve socialism through dictatorship. Ireland is a good
example of where some socialism (not too much) can propel them ahead of
the entire EU by many measures, and maybe even the US. Certainly no one
has proved socialism a favor. I read a book once where such a system of
government and way of life prospered a society for 200 years (nonfiction).
I received a wonderful e-mail from a friend of mine that went something
like this: We can drink water from our facets and know that we are safe
to do so because some liberal wacko lobbied the government for stricter
standards. Our cars are safe because liberal wackos lobbied the
government for minimal safety standards like seatbelts and airbags. Our
houses aren't in danger of collapse because liberal wackos defined
strict building codes. And on and on. Is this not socialist? Could
such things happen without socialist intervention? Sure. But at what
Has anyone on this list implemented NFSv4 on linux? I would welcome any
experiences and tips.
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