UT Lisp Users Group?

Josh Coates jcoates at archive.org
Wed Jul 13 16:20:10 MDT 2005


>This smells like the language snobbery that we had at the plug meeting a
while back.  It's all
> about ego (some egos being *quite* large).  

(i think that was probably me.)

but, my take away from the meeting (a plug meeting a couple months ago where
bryan sant presented java) was this:

dynamic languages are easy to learn and be useful with, even without formal
training in software engineering.  this may cause people to think it's okay
to drop out of school and go do 'real work' at a 'real job'.  this *may*
have a side effect of flooding the market with poorly trained engineers.
this side effect may or may not be a 'good thing', but it may well be
happening, so maybe we should talk about it.

we also talked a lot about jiffy lube, and the idea that someone who works
at jiffy lube is not the same as someone who designs engines - but in the
early days, a mechanic == automotive engineer, but that's not the case
anymore.

but note that using a dynamic language *well* is not easy.  anyway, so for
those of you who missed it, that was the gist.  at least, that's how i
remember it.

so i supposed you can mislabel this as snobbery, but i think the discussion
was really around the market implications of 'programmers' versus
'engineers'.  of course, if you think there is no practical difference
between the two, then it would just be simple snobbery.

blah blah blah.  i've been way over-using my plug quota this week..

Josh Coates
www.jcoates.org

-----Original Message-----
From: plug-bounces at plug.org [mailto:plug-bounces at plug.org] On Behalf Of
Jonathan Ellis
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 4:04 PM
To: Provo Linux Users Group Mailing List; Provo Linux Users Group Mailing
List
Subject: Re: UT Lisp Users Group?

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:00:03 -0600, "Gabriel Gunderson" <gabe at gundy.org>
said:
> On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 14:40 -0700, Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> > Dismissing the almost self-evident assertion that all languages are 
> > not equal as "snobbery" baffles me
> 
> Guess you weren't at the meeting...

Nope.

> If it's so self-evident, how come some people seem to feel the need to 
> point it out so often?

Some of us can't resist feeding the trolls, I guess.

-Jonathan
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