OT: CompUSA Collecting personal information / Is this a trend?

Josh Hansen lists at josh.aros.net
Tue Feb 1 16:29:54 MST 2005


Sasha Pachev wrote:
>> Really don't want to get into a religion debate, as those can get 
>> pretty crazy.  I'm born and raised Utah LDS myself, but I know a few 
>> ethnic families and it's interesting to see how their values and 
>> heritage is effected by these situations.  All they really want to do 
>> is have a bit of wine with their dinner.  Not alcoholics, or lushes.  
>> Don't go around urinating on their nieghbor's bushes, drive drunk, or 
>> throw wild parties.  They just like a more formal dinner, as has been 
>> tradition.  Interesting how one group see's a store carrying wine as a 
>> direct attack on their values and disrespectfull and the other group 
>> see's a store that refuses to sell them as an attack on their values.
> 
> 
> Eric:
> 
> You are again failing to distinguish between a core value and a mere 
> preference. As much as I like bananas, I do not consider eating them a 
> part of my value system. If asked to give them up for a good cause, I 
> would. This would not be the same with prayer, scripture study, 
> attending church, and observing the Word of Wisdom. When I was baptized, 
> I made a promise to God to do those things, and I intend to do so rain 
> or shine for the rest of my life.
> 
> I do not know of a culture or religion where one  considers drinking 
> alcohol during a formal dinner a true core value, something they believe 
> came to them in a revelation from God, something that has been at the 
> core of their religion, something that they believe has made their 
> families and communities strong and protected them from harm, something 
> they would do even when threatened with torture or death.
> 
> 

Are you saying you would rather be tortured or killed than have an 
alcoholic beverage?  :|

I'm not a Mormon so I may be off base here, but isn't the Word of Wisdom 
  just some advice that is considered wise to follow, rather than a 
commandment from God that you will go to Hell for not obeying?  I was 
under the impression that many early Mormon leaders, including Joe Smith 
and Brigham Young, were at least moderate drinkers.  If it was really 
something God cared so deeply about, why was it fine in their time, but 
forbidden now?  I don't understand why so many devout LDS church members 
     seem to believe that taking a sip of alcohol makes a person evil.

Why punish a store for selling alcohol or tobacco?  It may be against 
your own core beliefs, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it's 
not like the stores force you to buy it when you go in.  If you don't 
want to drink it, you don't have to buy it, but why shouldn't it be 
available for those who do want it?  A store that is "Word of Wisdom 
compliant" that charges higher prices than a normal store sounds like 
someone is just out to swindle the faithful (and apparently succeeding 
at it, so more power to them I guess).  Personally I think it would be 
wiser to pay a lower price and simply not buy items that I don't want. 
Maybe having a glass of wine at the table is not as important to others 
in your community as not drinking is to you, but don't you think their 
rights should end where yours begin?  As in, if it doesn't affect you, 
don't worry about it?  Why would you care

You think alcohol is harmful to a community and that making it hard to 
come by makes you safer?  I have lived in Texas and am familiar with the 
"dry counties" there, where no alcohol may be sold, and I'm quite sure 
they don't tend to have lower rates of crime, divorce, etc than normal 
counties, but maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually seen statistics.  I 
know that the average person I knew from those counties wasn't any nicer 
than someone from any other county though.

I am a Utahn, and I know how Mormons feel about alcohol, and that is 
fine for them to feel that way.  However, like Art Pollard said, it 
amazes me that so many "conservatives" here don't seem to mind a huge 
government that acts as our moral police.  I mean, this is America, not 
Kuwait.  We don't need an all powerful DABC that gives steep fines to 
clubs at the drop of a hat with almost no oversight, a porn czar, and so 
on.  Whenever missionaries speak with me, they tell me how we have "free 
agency" to do what we want, but you would never guess that to be the 
belief of the LDS church from looking at our liquor laws.  Republicans 
here seem to get elected based on how "moral" they are, rather than how 
fiscally responsible they are, which is apparent from Utah's sky high 
tax rates and the amount of federal aid this state needs to get by. 
"Conservatives" here have no problem with a big government, they are 
perfectly happy with one as long as they are the ones running it.

Please understand that I mean no offense to Mormons, and I apologize if 
I did offend anyone.  I have nothing against them and I am anything but 
a bigot or an "anti-Mormon".  I am sorry for being so far off-topic with 
this post as well, I just felt that I needed to rant after seeing some 
of the replies here.

Cheers,

-Josh



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